Debate Club Test Thread- NEW TOPIC!!

[RobertM]

Approved by Lord of Hordes, that means he agreed to all my rules.
[shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300]The Debate Club[/glow] [/shadow]
The Debate club is to be a place for civilized discussion on recent news and current events.
Rules:
Don't flame, try to back up your reasoning with logic, not insults.
Example:
"According to newtons law, apples do not fall up" is good.
"you guys are retards if you believe thayt!!!" is not.
No pointless topics.
"Pie is not good" is bad. It will get alot of responces, but it is a very pointless topic.
Try not to spam
Emphasis on the "Try". some spam is funny and cool. Large amounts spoil a board.
If you are going to make a spammy reply, put something on topic underneath it. For example if you are in a thread about George W. Bush and you post "Cake is yummy" throw something on top of it like, "Cake is Yummy! but i am very displeased with the slow reaction in the hurricanes." WOW! I just turned the worst spam into a productive post!
Don't post opinions in the first post.
This rule seems unnesicary, but it prevents all bias. And as we all know Bias is bad for debates.It also encourages a good healthy debate, not an "I Agree" festival. Just post a topic, wait for a reply, and then post your veiws.
What is posted in the debate club, stays in the debate club.
This is a place for people to post their opinions and debate civily. If someone posts something you don't agree with, use a counterpoint and let it go. DO NOT carry anger from a heated debate over to another area of the board.

I really like the Way Lord of Hordes said it,

Anything I post in here is simply an opinion used for debate purposes. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think or act. I don't want anyone mad at me for anything I say in the debate, because it would be pointless, and also, I consider everyone here a friend. A difference of opinion is not a reason to become hostile...like the Shiites and Sunnis....it is simply a prospective twist on your own beliefs, that should be considered and weighed accordingly. Lashing out in anger solves nothing, only creates a wound, that becomes infected with biased germs, and could lead to cancer if not treated immediately.

Even if you don't cosinder the person a freind, don't hold a grudge, it doesn't solve anything.

Always remember: Intolerance will not be tolerated.

I might add more later.

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[glow=red,2,300]NEW TOPIC![/glow]


[glow=red,2,300]The Iraq[/glow]
(kinda)
[glow=red,2,300]War[/glow]

There are two common ideas of what should happen:


* Stay the course
* Cut and run



Which do you choose?
What do you think we should do?
(I will post my thoughts later for fear of bias.)

[soundslikeimback!]

I think we need to stick in it. I mean the enemy has pulled out and they are just waiting for us to leave. If we leave now they'll just move back in and then what... all the lives lost are in vein. All the money we spent is lost, and all that we've been through the last 4 or so years will be a waste. I've always gotten a lot of crap about it but i've always been behind Bush. Sure he didn't have a real reason to go in and invade but the country needed help. We knew what we were doing when we were sent in there. We were helping people and I would put my life at risk again to do it. Plus while your there you get tons of money!!! Yeah baby!

[RobertM]

I dissagree. I think "Mission Accomplished". I think we need to just lave Iraq. The Iraqians have a "somewhat" stable government.

At this point our troops are just sitting around breaking up minor dissagreements. Our soldiers are being used as Iraqs police. Iraq needs to hire their own police so we can leave.

[soundslikeimback!]

they are working on it but until they do we cant leave. You stated it yourself. They have a "somewhat" stable government. We need to stick around till they have a stable government. This Even though going in there in the first place was a somewhat nice thing to do. Freeing the country of the apression and turning a totally totalitarian government into a diplomatic country is something any country deserves. But if you think about it we're making the way to a very important diplomatic ally aswell. Look at the French. bunch of pussies n'shit but we tolerate them anyways, why? Because when it came to making our country the country it is today they stood with us and helped us. They had no reason to go and help us fight the british but they did it anyways and we're just paying it forward. And again you said they need to hire their own police. So why should we just up and leave if they dont have police. We need to stick around because if they dont take their time getting a good police force they will just end up being another mexico with corrupt cops and they wont flourish. Iraq has great potential to be a great country and we're just giving them their chance.

[Lord of Hordes]

Bush is a moron.
Declare victory, and pull out.
There is nothing left there for us.
The money our government spends on this "so-called" war, is enough to feed millions of homeless people....enough to put gas in our tanks for years....enough to settle the national defecit....enough to make so many things better in the world, and yet we stay and waste life, money, and time. Nothing is going to change the people there. The Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting each other for millenia...you can't just step in and make things better in just a couple years. Those people are not Americans, so they don't understand how democracy works, and they don't really care. They have different beliefs than we do. They don't want to be "americanized". It's their human right to desire such.

We have no right, and never had any right to begin with, to invade their country, and destroy their way of life. Forcing democracy on people is not democracy at all....it is fascism and tyranny.

I've never supported Gee Dubya Bush, and I never will. Why do you think we quit searching for Bin Laden? Because he was a hired mercenary...hired by Bush himself, to destroy the World Trade Centers, thus giving the USA an opportunity to establish a military stronghold in the Middle East, and become an unstoppable world-wide military. This also gave Bush the opportunity to impose on our freedom, with the Patriot Act, allowing our government to do whatever they want to to us, and we can do nothing about it (they'll say it's for national security). This also will lead to a potential civil war, where the people will stand up against the government, and say "Hey, we want our freedom back", and the government will simply say "You are all terrorists", and send in the military to kill anyone who raises their voice against the tyranny at hand, which will lead to the same exact types of events that are happening now, in Iraq.

Matt, wake up and smell the napalm. The cauldron is bubbling, and the witches are brewing a sleeping potion. Listen to the Tool song, in which he sings about "Going to sleep to the rythm of the war drums". Our government wants us all to think that they are taking care of us, when in fact, they are setting us up for complete domination...a new world order to be exact. Of course, you could be like the rest of the USA citizens and say "That's just too far fetched...our government is not that corrupt." If you choose to ignore the ominous, apparently you underestimate the corrupt power of the United States government. Did the American Indians not get blankets infected with smallpox as they were forced from their homelands by our government? Did we not go to war with Vietnam, which is now considered to have been a "police action"? Did Al Gore not get cheated out of the presidency because he is a conservationalist, opposing excessive oil drilling, while promoting alternative fuel? Do our top government officials not all belong to the same secret club called the Bohemian Grove, in which they participate in "mock" satanic rituals, including a "mock" human sacrifice to an ancient owl god named Molech?

Open your eyes. Accept the truth. The War in Iraq is only a farce, a way to keep our attention off the real matters going on behind our backs...which is "American people are here to serve the government, instead of it being the other way around". We are headed toward dictatorship, and democracy will be a thing of the past. We will all serve our government, or die defending freedom. Which side will you choose? Bush's side? He doesn't care if you're dead or alive...there's plenty of other americans to take your place...and if there ever comes a time when there is no one to take your place, there's always the illegal aliens.

I'm done for now.

[soundslikeimback!]

I resent the fact that you think we are wasting lives. When you spend a year and a half in Iraq standing behind our leaders orders then you can talk. I've seen my best friends get blown up, shot, and over all mutilated because there are people out there that know whats going on. They are called the US Military. You can sit on your couch all day and pretend like you know what its like to face things like that all you want but in reality you have no idea why were there. And if you are even going to dare call 911 a conspiracy than I'll just refer to Southpark and call you a moron because only a moron would think that we bombed ourselves. Years from now when we get ourselves into trouble and the new United States of Iraq come to our aid with financial, oil, and arms I bet everyone will be happy that we made such an ally. Telling me that they dont want freedom? Have you ever walked down a street where everyone would run out of their houses and cheer for you to show their appreciation of what you are doing? I have. You get what the media tells you and they believe the only good news is bad news. I stopped watching the news because all they do is tear down our president, the government, and the troops who are risking their lives out there for what they know is right.

[RobertM]

You watched your friends get blown up, shot, and over all mutilated because we are in a place we are not supposed to be.
We are Americans, not Iraqians. We had no right in the first place to enter this "war". In my mind, if they aren't part of the UN, we shouldn't be helping them.
I think this war has caused more harm than good. I think they are at the point were we should leave and let them establish their own policies and laws.
Its like when you teach a kid to walk, you help them stand up, help them get used to standing assisted, then after a while let go and they do it.
Its the same Idea. They are standing, ready to walk. yet we are still there when we really don't need to be.

[soundslikeimback!]

**Off Topic** I made a seperate post in the Old Locked Threads section called Old Debate Topics. It has the entire first topic therefore making this thread cleaner. Will add them to that thread as they close in this thread.

cactii.proboards88.com/index.cgi?board=lockage&action=display&thread=1167949112

[Lord of Hordes]

I resent the fact that you think we are wasting lives. When you spend a year and a half in Iraq standing behind our leaders orders then you can talk.

The whole reason you believe differently is because you're "standing behind a leader's orders", instead of thinking for yourself

I've seen my best friends get blown up, shot, and over all mutilated because there are people out there that know whats going on. They are called the US Military.

And exactly what do they know that makes them feel like your friends lives are expendable?

You can sit on your couch all day and pretend like you know what its like to face things like that all you want but in reality you have no idea why were there. And if you are even going to dare call 911 a conspiracy than I'll just refer to Southpark and call you a moron because only a moron would think that we bombed ourselves.

You haven't done your reseach. Call me a moron after reviewing the evidence NOT provided by the US government.

Years from now when we get ourselves into trouble and the new United States of Iraq come to our aid with financial, oil, and arms I bet everyone will be happy that we made such an ally.

Muslims hate Christians...which is what the USA's beliefs, laws, and governmental ideals are founded upon....Iraq will never be an ally...in fact, we won't have to worry about who is our allies, and who is not, in the near future....our government is allowing job losses at an exponential rate, and within the next few years, the only jobs that will be available to our young people is in the military, ensuring that the USA has the most powerful military in the world...securing their global domination.

Telling me that they dont want freedom? Have you ever walked down a street where everyone would run out of their houses and cheer for you to show their appreciation of what you are doing? I have.

No. I live in America, where if you do something that benefits the entire nation, you are assasinated. Also, are they cheering for what you think you are doing for them? Or are they cheering for the fact that they are free from the current tyranny?

You get what the media tells you and they believe the only good news is bad news. I stopped watching the news because all they do is tear down our president, the government, and the troops who are risking their lives out there for what they know is right.

Not what they know is right...it's what they are TOLD is right. You should know that the military does not promote free-thinking. Boot Camp alone eliminates any of that. All soldiers must think and act the same way....zero personality.

Anyways, Matt...I'm not coming down on you. I love the troops, I just hate the people barking the orders. Your post above is a total militaristic response.... although, an uneducated one. Do some online research about the Bohemian Grove. Do some online research about the WTC conspiracy.

You can't make arguements like yours without some research to back-up your claims. Everything I read in your post was totally biased....like you refused the possibilities, like you didn't care if anything I said had any face value, because, as it would seem, you don't know the whole story. True, I haven't been to Iraq...the military won't have me, due to the seriousness of my medical condition which I won't discuss....but, I don't make any statements in my arguements that are not backed up with my own research that I've done in my own spare time. I don't just sit on my couch and watch the news. I dig deep on the internet to find answers to my own questions. Deep down, I always hoped to find something that made the conspiracies debunked, but, I could never find anything to prove otherwise, only more evidence to back-up the idea of conspriacy and corrupt government. I think you should do the same, and I also feel that every American deserves the right to view all evidence supporting either side and decide for themselves.

Anything I post in here is simply an opinion used for debate purposes. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think or act. I don't want anyone mad at me for anything I say in the debate, because it would be pointless, and also, I consider everyone here a friend. A difference of opinion is not a reason to become hostile...like the Shiites and Sunnis....it is simply a prospective twist on your own beliefs, that should be considered and weighed accordingly. Lashing out in anger solves nothing, only creates a wound, that becomes infected with biased germs, and could lead to cancer if not treated immediately.

I'm sorry if you felt threatened in any way Matt...I didn't mean to be so blunt with you in my previous post. Forgive me, and I'll forgive you for the "moron" comment.

[RobertM]

Perfect! *claps*
that post about not offending people with debating is being moved to the first post along with a new rule I thought of.