The KoO make an Ass out of themselves again!!

[123prince]

Ok, i think thats enough of the "Tell Us/ Do It", so LoH had a convo Rayf Drayson (Famousness), anyway, what was the convo topic?

[RobertM]

admin said:

I've been carrying on a conversation through PM with Rayf Drayson, about the New Rule....I might post the convo later.

[123prince]

Didnt notice the new rule part, oops, but how long did it last? or how many back an forth pms

[jatrix]

The world may never know.

[123prince]

Ya....lets just drop the Rayf, and LoH, discussion, and riot against the KoO

[Lord of Hordes]

I basically told him what Rob said, at first....that he needed to get his facts straight. Extortion is where someone demands money by threatening physical harm. I also told him that I thought it was a bad business move to make an announcement like that to paying customers....it's not very appealing, you know? here's how he replied:

ORIGINAL: Rayf Drayson

Extortion is a general term for using threats to compel someone to meet your demands. It does not necessarily involve money, nor information, as the demands being extorted from the individual, though it can involve those things. When you are specifically extorting money out of an individual or organization using threats - usually not involving bodily harm but that is not outside the realm of possibility - that is referred to as blackmail.

So now that we both have our facts straight, as you advised me to do, allow me to address your concerns.

Game content is never an issue in which you, as the customer, have any rights to issue demands. You are paying Guardianship for full access - barring temporary technical issues - and a few bonuses. If those are being granted to your character without issue, then the conditions of that exchange are being met. X-Guardianship is for extra XP and a few extra bonuses. Again, if those are being granted without issue, the conditions of that exchange are being met. And you purchase Z-Tokens. Electronic data in the form of supplemental in-game currency. You pay money, you get Z-Tokens. End of transaction. How you choose to spend those Z-Tokens at that point is your own business and not a part of the transaction. So you don't actually pay real money for any Z-Token items. Not directly. Thus, no right to issue demands.

Game content is always subject to change, and gameplay is subject to change as well. All agreements that you sign upon character creation and paying for Guardianship, X-Guardianship, and Z-Tokens are very specific in that regard.

That is not to say, however, that we do not realize that Z-Token items are touchy subject, specifically because people pay money for Z-Tokens, and don't realize that they're not really paying for the items, just the tokens. That is why we will not nerf a token item after 48 hours post release and why the 90% sellback period is now 48 hours long. That is why we make every effort as a team, KoO and Dev team, to make sure that token items get adjusted for balance prior to release so the players never see any changes being made (at least for the past 3 months or so we've been doing this). The 48-hour thing is your guarantee, really.

Buffs, however, are never guaranteed. For any item. Period. Z-Token or gold. Z-Token items are scaled up in level by roughly about 40 levels higher than their listed level requirement in terms of balance. That means, however, that they usually fall in the 60-80 range. Things with higher level requirements can be more powerful than these items.

Now, as a paying customer - even those 1 to 2 one-time payments and a few Z-Token purchases (if that many) hardly make up for the bandwidth costs alone that most people use up in the lifetime of their accounts, so calling them "paying customers" is a bit of a misnomer when you get right down to it. Anyway, as a paying customer, you are allowed to express your dissatisfaction with the game. But you aren't allowed to flame, you aren't allowed to use profanity, and you aren't allowed to publically threaten lawsuits (again, that's a threat). You have to express your displeasure through calm, rational discussion. In short, you have to be civilized about it.

Extortion is not the action of a civilized person. Yes, your decisions on how to spend your money are your own business, but the moment you post them publically, they become our business. And there is no reason to post them publically unless you think the statement will have some impact. It is, in effect, low-grade trolling, which is explicitly against the rules. And it is a threat. Not a very strong threat - in fact incredibly weak - but an attempt at a threat, nonetheless.

And it becomes extortion when that threat is coupled with a demand or set of demands. If you don't do _____, I'll do _____. That's a demand followed by a threat: Extortion.

Game Balance Issues exists for players to post arguments about why they feel something is imbalanced and what they feel should be done to balance it. Logical, rational arguments are what are supposed to go there. Demands and threats are neither logical nor rational. And we don't have to tolerate them.

So I am sorry if you feel that this is a bad business decision, but I'm afraid people are going to have to learn to express their displeasure in more constructive ways.


Sincerely,


Rayf Drayson
Interim Head of the Knights of Order, Interim Head Moderator of AQ Suggestions, AQ Bugs, and Game Balance Issues

Then I wrote

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry if I got under your skin a little...I didn't mean to. I'd really like to continue this discussion in a less heated manner. I realize that you probably get lots and lots of messages every day, and it probably gets a bit frustrating. I want you to know that I'm 31 years old, and playing AQ is a hobby of mine. I'm not trying to brown-nose here, or anything of the sort; I'm just trying to see things from both sides.

On one side is the players, and on the other side is the KoO. As it stands, from my viewpoint, neither side likes each other much at all. If it were up to me (and I know it's not), I would make the Game Balance Issues board closed for posting. Just the KoO would be able to post the updates they make. It really upsets people to see things get "nerfed". Honestly...who wants that? Sure, there are alot of people who make posts regarding certain things that they feel are overpowered, but I just consider that to be brown-nosing...trying to get a foot in the AK doorway.

Something to keep in mind, is that the majority of the players are really young. They see a new ZT item, the stats look terrific, so they purchase ZTs to get that particular item....usually because they want to be the first one to try it out, and make a post about it in the GGD (I haven't forgotten about the terms of agreement on ZT purchases, but alot of people do). But, then the item gets nerfed. Anger sets in. Hard-earned money (or days of farming for gold) spent on something they didn't want. It's extremely frustrating...I know, because I've done it a few times, myself. I've finally learned my lesson, though...not to get an item when it first comes out. But, if balance is a key issue, why not fix the balance of harmony bewteen the players and the creative team? Unhappy AQ players means more DF players....or worse, Runescape...bleh.

I like the fact that the KoO keep things in order, but it seems like there's just too much. I'd like to know your thoughts on some of these things:

• 1. Too many weapons/armors in the game?
  
• 2. Not enough time to test things before release?
  
• 3. Priorities are set on releasing new stuff each week, instead of focusing on making the game better and better (quantity above quality)?
  
• 4. Not enough income from Guardian upgrades and ZT purchases?

For #1, I'd have to say "yes", there are way too many weapons and armors in the game. It would be nice if there was a way to phase out the low-leveled weapons and armors in the game, and replace them with newer, yet fewer, things. Like, say, if some low-leveled characters had a specific weapon, and it was on the list to be phased out, a notification box would pop up on the screen when those people logged in, telling them that their ____ weapon is scheduled for removal from the game in two weeks, and that they should replace it with something else. I don't know, that's just an example. I don't think ZT items or uber items should be considered in that scenario. Also, new low-leveled weapons and armors would attarct experienced players to start new characters and play the game from level 1 again....perhaps making some ZT and Guardian purchases in the process.

For #2, I feel like items should be available for KoO testing for at least two weeks before scheduled release. I don't know how much time you guys currently have to test things, but I feel like there should be ways of testing not just the new item, but the difficulty and time spent in getting said item, as well. That way, there could be no complaints about nerfing said items after release. If any item is released, it should stay the way it is upon release...even gold-costing items. Prices for any item should be equivalent to all other items of relatively equal power, not level or rarity, thus, decreasing "demands" for buffs.

For #3...10 minutes of quality gaming is better for me, than 2 hours of repetetive farming to get a new item that costs tons of gold or ZTs. I love new wars, and quests. I love the plots for them...usually. It keeps me interested in the game itself. I haven't heard one person say they love to farm for hours. We all know it's boring. Something I would do, is start working on old things that need updates. Like faces and hair-styles...replacing old map quests with new ones, or adding new areas on the map to adventure in...do extra nice things for Guardians on occasion, to entice more upgrades. The new artwork is spectacular, and I love it; but it's really not enough to keep the game interesting, IMO.

For #4, I know I really wouldn't mind an advertisement or two on the homepage. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, to be honest. I think AQ stands to make alot of extra income by allowing advertisements on the homepage, instead of just the sponsors.


Keep in mind, that those things I said are just my opinion, and I know that's not worth much, but I'm just trying to see what your thoughts are on those issues.

I hope I haven't said anything else to get under your skin. I really want to see things from both sides of the story. You know the saying: "If you didn't hear it from the horse's mouth, you heard it from a horse's behind". I'd like to know your opinions on the things I talked about, directly from the horse's mouth. There's so much speculation among the players, suggesting that the KoO are deliberately trying to make the players miserable. I know that's not the truth. So, please, reply back to me again.

I know this was extremely long-winded...lol sorry. Thanks for your time.

I had to remove a bunch of stuff from my original script, because it was over the max character limit for a PM....mostly, the stuff I deleted was things that made it look LESS like I was sucking up to him, lol.

Anyways, he replied back to that with TWO PMs. He had to do it in two parts, due to the character limlit restriction for PMs on their boards. Here's what he wrote:

(apparently, I've maxed out the character limit, so this is in 2 parts)

Okay, this is better. If my previous tone was harsh and defensive it
was only because yours had been, well, harsh and accusatory. This is
better.

If there seems like there's too much being done, that's because we came
into the middle of an ongoing project and there's so much that needs to
be done. We still need to do the really BIG long-term projects - our
"Sweeps". We need to figure out a proper power progression for armors
throughout the level chart - using the uber armors as they are now as
the top tier. As part of this, we plan to change a few classes around,
replace some of the abilities with new ones we've already designed, etc.
And Necromancer class still needs a drawback. If it's supposed to be a
glass cannon, it's currently lacking the glass part. We then need to
adjust most weapon specials (buffing the uber weapons yet again), to
make them slightly exceed the armor power progression, and reduce their
special rates. This is especially true at higher levels. Shields may
need some adjustments here and there. Pets will need a few adjustments.
And spells will definitely need some adjustments, especially at the
middle levels.

So, yes, we need to make adjustments to pretty much all the
pre-existing items in the game. That's a really BIG project. And it needs to be
done, because there's never been a consistent plan for this type of
thing in the history of the game. Equipment has been created haphazardly,
up until maybe 5-6 months ago. Only recently has it gotten better, and
even then we have to catch a few oversights when the initial entries
are created. In fact, recently, Galanoth - who creates all the final
versions of the database entries and files for upload, especially the
files - has been erring on the side of underpowered. Especially in the
past couple of months.

Believe it or not, we don't like nerfing anything. We joke about it,
sure. One thing about us: we take the job seriously, but we're not
serious people. But we don't really like changing anything unless there's
a reason. And it has to be a good reason. Especially if it involves
changing code, which is not easily accomplished, even on the best of
days. About the only thing we'd always want to nerf is the players'
expectations.

FOLLOWED BY THIS:

As for your questions...

1) No, I don't believe there are too many items in the game. We're not
in the habit of removing items from the game, just from the shops. I
don't much like the latter, really. There are too many rares. Far too
many. That's where the problem lies. Variety is good. I like
variety. But the problem is when you make a rare that exceeds something in
the permanent shops (which I'm okay with, really), and then don't create
anything permanent to fill the gap that rare item creates. Either the
item should not be rare, or something equivalent needs to be
permanently available.

2) Depends. They usually try to give us a couple of days to test
things prior to release. Sometimes that doesn't happen, but recently - past
couple of months at least - they've been really good about it. I've
got a direct line, so to speak, to Galanoth, so I can talk to him about
bugs and imbalance issues as we come across them. Problem is: we don't
catch everything during testing. Hate to say it, but that's likely to
always be the case. I have a low-level test character (level 16) with
some staff-only items in addition to my main AQ-teamed character, so I
can test low-level monsters and bosses or high-leveled monsters and
bosses. Other KoO have high-leveled test characters for the most part,
some 70-90 range. The mid-levels are the biggest problem area for
testing monsters and quest difficulty for the entire staff, not just the KoO.
Even the most thorough testing by a small number of people, however,
cannot catch everything. Players are remarkably good at breaking things
that shouldn't be able to be broken. And they're remarkably good at
finding combinations of equipment to exploit that we'd never think about.
So, no matter how well we think we've tested something, it's never
really enough. Thus, we cannot ever say that something will never be
changed once it is released.

3) There are a number of long-term projects always being worked on, but
the priority for that week is the week's release. That's the modus
operandi of the game: the weekly update. That's the way it works. So
obviously the priority is to get the week's release done, and work on the
long-term projects after that. As the long-term projects come along,
they become part of the weekly update. I'd like to see more things get
added to the long-term projects list, but those aren't ever going to be
the priority each week. And finding artists (and coders these days,
with Kal's computer problems) to work on the long-term projects - since
they already have a number of them - is not a simple task.

4) Yes. Guardian upgrades and Z-Token purchases do not, in any way,
provide enough income. Servers cost a bundle of money, bandwidth costs a
ton, maintenance costs a ton, and people always forget the sundry other
costs to maintaining a server farm - electricity, air conditioning,
etc. As for advertising, I'm bound by the Non-Disclosure Agreement to not
say anything. Which means, yes, I know something.

So, anyway, there you go. Straight from the horse's mouth (though I
really think of myself as the other end).


-Rayf

I have yet to reply back. That was really long, and it would take me a little while to address each item therein. I've been too busy making those trophies for Rob and Spindle....damn, Rob's Contest Trophy was a bitch....took me forever...mostly because I had to start over from scratch about 10 times. lol....don't ask why.

[123prince]

Wow, that was a deep convo, i could never talk that long, maybe its because im still a youngin.....

[RobertM]

Anyone who's ever talked to me knows I ramble on for hours....

Its just typing takes too long.

[123prince]

not if you take classes, i had to in middle school.....3 years....BTW, my middle school went up to 9th (7, 8 ,9), and i can type with out even looking down, maybe a few mistakes here and there...but i can edit...

[jatrix]

Do you guys you that "Fingers on ASDFJKL;" thing? I just type with my fingers, the "Hunt and peck" move, and I used it when I was younger, too. I was the fastest typer in my class, same thing now.